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	<title>Comments on: Russia&#8217;s Sisyphean Loop</title>
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	<link>http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/2009/11/17/russias-sisyphean-loop/</link>
	<description>Anatoly Karlin on Eurasia, geopolitics, and peak oil</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 20:15:11 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>By: Vadim P.</title>
		<link>http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/2009/11/17/russias-sisyphean-loop/#comment-2744</link>
		<dc:creator>Vadim P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 05:41:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Wonderful article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wonderful article.</p>
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		<title>By: Gregor</title>
		<link>http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/2009/11/17/russias-sisyphean-loop/#comment-2721</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:24:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@Anatoly
This is probably something that would take a long time to deal with properly and I have little time, but put briefly, I think that Berdyaev gave the mirror image of the Richard Pipes school of thought that Bolshevism was basically Tsarism. Berdyaev vastly exaggerated Bolshevism as a nationalist ‘Russian’ ideology, because due to its failures it was barely ‘Marxist’ (given that Marx thought that the state would erode). 

It seems to me to be one of the weirdest things about nations: that they often stereotype themselves. The idea of ‘Russian Marxism’ (as opposed to Marxism in Russia) seemed based on the idea that Dostoyevskyan romanticism had gripped the Russian Empire, when in fact it was mainly the case that the Tsarist bureaucracy had failed abysmally and a utilitarian middle class bureaucracy stepped into the power gap. 

I have no doubt that the Leninists genuinely hated the monarchy, but their nation did not bear much resemblance to Marxist works: a state that poured money into Germany and where the peasants were starved to death.*

In fact, I really don’t think that two cultures could be much more different. Yes, both had a brutal edge, but aside from that there is very little. It seems to me that people make far too much of Stalin’s speech at the beginning of Operation Barbarossa where he appealed to Russian history. This really was a last resort, and within years they had returned to their old ideology. 

These are my views, though I admit Russian history is not an area of expertise and you will no doubt prove me wrong on many counts ;-)


*Overall, I agree with some of what you wrote previously re Bolshevism. I share your view that Lenin caused a lot of damage and was essentially muddled whilst Stalin was evil but did achieve a lot. Having said that I dislike this area because ‘my side’ IE the Whites lost the civil war, I do think the idea that uncle joe was responsible for 20 million deaths is a lot of nonsense, especially as Russian farming has always suffered from its poor geography and climate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Anatoly<br />
This is probably something that would take a long time to deal with properly and I have little time, but put briefly, I think that Berdyaev gave the mirror image of the Richard Pipes school of thought that Bolshevism was basically Tsarism. Berdyaev vastly exaggerated Bolshevism as a nationalist ‘Russian’ ideology, because due to its failures it was barely ‘Marxist’ (given that Marx thought that the state would erode). </p>
<p>It seems to me to be one of the weirdest things about nations: that they often stereotype themselves. The idea of ‘Russian Marxism’ (as opposed to Marxism in Russia) seemed based on the idea that Dostoyevskyan romanticism had gripped the Russian Empire, when in fact it was mainly the case that the Tsarist bureaucracy had failed abysmally and a utilitarian middle class bureaucracy stepped into the power gap. </p>
<p>I have no doubt that the Leninists genuinely hated the monarchy, but their nation did not bear much resemblance to Marxist works: a state that poured money into Germany and where the peasants were starved to death.*</p>
<p>In fact, I really don’t think that two cultures could be much more different. Yes, both had a brutal edge, but aside from that there is very little. It seems to me that people make far too much of Stalin’s speech at the beginning of Operation Barbarossa where he appealed to Russian history. This really was a last resort, and within years they had returned to their old ideology. </p>
<p>These are my views, though I admit Russian history is not an area of expertise and you will no doubt prove me wrong on many counts <img src='http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>*Overall, I agree with some of what you wrote previously re Bolshevism. I share your view that Lenin caused a lot of damage and was essentially muddled whilst Stalin was evil but did achieve a lot. Having said that I dislike this area because ‘my side’ IE the Whites lost the civil war, I do think the idea that uncle joe was responsible for 20 million deaths is a lot of nonsense, especially as Russian farming has always suffered from its poor geography and climate.</p>
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		<title>By: AK</title>
		<link>http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/2009/11/17/russias-sisyphean-loop/#comment-2719</link>
		<dc:creator>AK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 12:40:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/?p=2653#comment-2719</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t fully understand the point you&#039;re trying to make, Gregor. The Russian &quot;masses&quot; weren&#039;t overly ideological, it is true, being more concerned with things like bread, land, and peace. The Bolsheviks were clever enough to appeal to these desires, but it was their ideology that actually made History (otherwise, it would have just been a ordinary bunt).

The main point of the Berdyaev quote is to illustrate the eventual reassertion of distinctly Russia traditions over the superimposition of a Western-derived ideology (Marxism).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t fully understand the point you&#8217;re trying to make, Gregor. The Russian &#8220;masses&#8221; weren&#8217;t overly ideological, it is true, being more concerned with things like bread, land, and peace. The Bolsheviks were clever enough to appeal to these desires, but it was their ideology that actually made History (otherwise, it would have just been a ordinary bunt).</p>
<p>The main point of the Berdyaev quote is to illustrate the eventual reassertion of distinctly Russia traditions over the superimposition of a Western-derived ideology (Marxism).</p>
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		<title>By: Gregor</title>
		<link>http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/2009/11/17/russias-sisyphean-loop/#comment-2718</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 12:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/?p=2653#comment-2718</guid>
		<description>Fascinating article Anatoly. 

Pretty busy at the moment, but a quick point. I&#039;d be sceptical of quoting Berdyaev as a political thinker. He was a great philosopher of existentialist Christianity and an excellent literary critic. 

However, I think he projected onto the Marxist rebellion what he thought SHOULD have been the motive for the revolution. Which was not backed up by what happened.

Given how much has been written about the Russian Revolution, it is still a complete enigma to me and overall I don&#039;t think that ideology played much of a role. Of course the leaders thought that they were doing it out of ideology, but I am very sceptical that people are so complicated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating article Anatoly. </p>
<p>Pretty busy at the moment, but a quick point. I&#8217;d be sceptical of quoting Berdyaev as a political thinker. He was a great philosopher of existentialist Christianity and an excellent literary critic. </p>
<p>However, I think he projected onto the Marxist rebellion what he thought SHOULD have been the motive for the revolution. Which was not backed up by what happened.</p>
<p>Given how much has been written about the Russian Revolution, it is still a complete enigma to me and overall I don&#8217;t think that ideology played much of a role. Of course the leaders thought that they were doing it out of ideology, but I am very sceptical that people are so complicated.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Kuznetsov</title>
		<link>http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/2009/11/17/russias-sisyphean-loop/#comment-2681</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Kuznetsov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:38:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/?p=2653#comment-2681</guid>
		<description>Bravo, Anatoly!

I would specially emphasize these lines of yours:

&quot;Nonetheless, it is unlikely that the USSR could have withstood an assault by the Wehrmacht, supported by the industrial potential of most of Europe, if it hadn’t been for Stalin’s foresight and ruthlessness in industrializing the Urals, expanding Soviet borders west, centralizing state operations, and preparing wartime industrial relocation plans.&quot;

Thank you for your great work, Anatoly.

Cheers!

Michael Kuznetsov</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bravo, Anatoly!</p>
<p>I would specially emphasize these lines of yours:</p>
<p>&#8220;Nonetheless, it is unlikely that the USSR could have withstood an assault by the Wehrmacht, supported by the industrial potential of most of Europe, if it hadn’t been for Stalin’s foresight and ruthlessness in industrializing the Urals, expanding Soviet borders west, centralizing state operations, and preparing wartime industrial relocation plans.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thank you for your great work, Anatoly.</p>
<p>Cheers!</p>
<p>Michael Kuznetsov</p>
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