http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/forum/ Sublime Oblivion Forums » Forum: THE LIBRARY - Recent Posts en Sun, 01 Aug 2010 10:05:09 +0000 http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/forum/topic/moratorium-on-death-penalty-in-russia-to-expire-soon#post-156 Sat, 14 Nov 2009 15:24:03 +0000 Gerasim 156@http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/forum/ <p>@Anatoly: Still, in majority of cases people who commit crimes do not have choice. They do this involuntary, like under certain conditions you will sneeze regardless wishing or not. The believe, that they do have a choice is once again rooted in history. </p> <p>Asthma is another example of involuntary human actions, and an example which modern medicine is more or less able to manage. If you do nothing, then no understanding will be achieved indeed. Those who are dare to try will solve any problem, little by little, by the next century maybe. Too long to wait, hence not worth doing?</p> <p>Not easy to implement, indeed. There are too many brain washed psychopaths around - a comparison with nazi experiments on humans is guaranteed. Though, brain washed psychopaths can be fixed medically too, adding further value to the approach. Change is the only road to survival, leaving things as they are means death. Death together with those psychopaths. </p> http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/forum/topic/moratorium-on-death-penalty-in-russia-to-expire-soon#post-149 Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:44:02 +0000 Anatoly Karlin 149@http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/forum/ <p>@Gerasim,</p> <p><blockquote>The former are under the DP already, sentenced by fellows of their victims. Most of them finish their careers exactly this way rather than in court.</blockquote></p> <p>You mean &quot;those who live by the sword die by the sword&quot;? You&#39;ve got a point, but it can&#39;t hurt for the authorities to take potshots at them. Especially in places where the swordsmen are out of control.</p> <p><blockquote>So, DP is a poor crime deterrent, but rather a tribute to medieval era.</blockquote></p> <p>Not just the medieval era, but the vast majority of human societies throughout history. The problem with DP in the US is that it takes far too long to implement and is highly arbitrary; calculations show that it is actually a lot more dangerous to be a drug dealer in the US, in terms of life expectancy, than to be on death row. Hence, it won&#39;t deter them. But if you make DP automatic and quick for certain, tightly-defined crimes, I think the deterrent effect will be very significant.</p> <p><blockquote>Do we kill contagiously infected people? No, we try to cure them! This is the only civilized way to deal with the problem.</blockquote></p> <p>Most people, at least outside Western Europe, believe that individuals have free will to commit or not to commit crime (unlike getting infected). As such, they are not really comparable.</p> <p><blockquote>Unfortunately, resurgence of religious mediocracy in Russia ruins the chances, clearing the way to China, probably.</blockquote></p> <p>I doubt China is much interested in this.</p> <p><blockquote>Imagine if a reliable diagnostic procedure is discovered and everybody should pass it. Those who fail will have a chance to get a treatment in advance, safeguarding the society and their own lifes.</blockquote></p> <p>1. I am very skeptical you can get anything near &quot;reliability&quot; considering that the decision to commit or not to commit a crime is an extremely <em>complex</em> process based on a huge number of internal and external factors which we have no way of modeling, or any idea of how start - AFAIK.<br /> 2. You&#39;ll need a dictatorship to pass this through into policy. </p> http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/forum/topic/moratorium-on-death-penalty-in-russia-to-expire-soon#post-146 Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:12:26 +0000 Gerasim 146@http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/forum/ <p>Most of severe crimes are carried out either by cold blooded professional killers or by impulsive &quot;peasants&quot;. The former are under the DP already, sentenced by fellows of their victims. Most of them finish their careers exactly this way rather than in court. The latter simply have no time to contemplate about consequences as they act on an impulse and not on a reason. Oh, yes, there are well ahead planning amateur smart asses. They are too smart to imagine they will be cought - DP or not makes no difference for them. So, DP is a poor crime deterrent, but rather a tribute to medieval era. People acting on impulse are just mentally sick people posing danger to the society, like those infected with cholera or tuberculosis. Their brain chemistry went astray a bit. Do we kill contagiously infected people? No, we try to cure them! This is the only civilized way to deal with the problem. And we certainly have to do research on those people to find efficient ways to fix the condition, just similar to research on AIDS etc. Unlike Europe, overliberal to idiocy, Russia could be the leader in this field. Unfortunately, resurgence of religious mediocracy in Russia ruins the chances, clearing the way to China, probably. Those poor murderers and child rapists should be confined to medical research laboratories rather than to courts and prisons. And we better discuss how to convince public to start the experimentation, as some will probably die because of unsuccessful experiments. Why do we have to treat people after a crime was committed? Imagine if a reliable diagnostic procedure is discovered and everybody should pass it. Those who fail will have a chance to get a treatment in advance, safeguarding the society and their own lifes. As always, it is the reason which should be fixed, not the consequences. As always, it is not popular. </p> http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/forum/topic/moratorium-on-death-penalty-in-russia-to-expire-soon#post-143 Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:14:25 +0000 solar sun 143@http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/forum/ <p>@Anatoly Karlin</p> <p>I support DP but in Russia&#39;s case I would wait until they have improved there court system and corruption in the police and government. </p> <p>The best argument for reinstating the DP is the cost is keeps prisoners in prison for life compared to just killing them. </p> http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/forum/topic/moratorium-on-death-penalty-in-russia-to-expire-soon#post-142 Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:45:56 +0000 Anatoly Karlin 142@http://www.sublimeoblivion.com/forum/ <p>On 1st Jan 2010.</p> <p>56% Russians are for the DP, while 25% are against (<a href="http://www.mr7.ru/news/society/story_19959.html">poll</a>). In previous polls the figures were typically in the 60%&#39;s-70%&#39;s for.</p> <p>Putin, Medvedev, and the Orthodox Church hierarchy are against, so the moratorium will almost certainly be renewed. Furthermore,there will probably be an unbelievable tsunami of complaints from Europe if it isn&#39;t.</p> <p>My own thinking on DP is that it probably isn&#39;t needed in stable, low-crime societies like those of Western Europe, but is highly useful and justifiable in particularly violent and/or corrupt nations like South Africa, Venezuela, Iraq, etc. With a homicide rate of 16 / 100,000 (about 10x the West European and 3x the US rate) and what most commentators consider to be a huge amount of high-level corruption, I believe it is in Russia&#39;s interests to ignore West European complaints about the &quot;human rights&quot; of criminals (they knowingly forfeited them through their actions anyway) and re-institute the DP - swift and certain for added deterrent value - for 1st-degree homicide, serial rape, child rape, people trafficking, gross corruption (&gt;1mn $), and serious cases of national treason. Russia will get kicked out of the Council of Europe, but should it care? Let democracy rule. </p>