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  • Posted by T. Greer 2 years ago. There are 3 posts. The latest reply is from Anatoly Karlin.
  1. Over the last month and a half a significant news story has come forth that has not deserved its relative lack of attention. See, as it turns out, the IPCC was wrong. Dead wrong.

    The IPCC put forward the claim in its last working report that if CO2 emissions were released unabated then the Himalayan glaciers would disappear by 2035, and by way of consequent drought, kill millions of people dependent on rivers whose source lies in the Himalayas glacial run off. (That includes, off the top of my head, the Yangtze, the Mekong, the Ganges, the Meghna, and the Indus.)

    Two months ago the Indian environmental ministry published their own report that claimed the opposite -- the Himalayas were in no way about to dry off the face of the Earth.

    Coming as it did before Copenhagen, most Western environmentalists dismissed the report as a cheap ploy to strengthen their negotiating position before the conference. (To see my thoughts on that conference, see here.

    But, it turns out the Indians may have been onto something. A few scientists and reporters dug into the report... and discovered that the 2035 figure was baseless. The real number was not 2035, but 2350.

    I could tell the story of how all this happened, but others have already blazed that trail better than I can. And I present:

    By the Way, there will still be glaciers in 2035.
    John Nielsen-Gammon. Atmo.Sphere. 12 December 2009.

    Peer Review in the IPCC
    Roger Peilke Jr. Roger Peilke Jr’s Blog. 23 December 2009.

    Seperating Climate Facts from Fears
    Editors. New Scientist. 13 January 2010.

  2. Thanks for contributing this, TG. My thoughts:

    1. The IPCC was indeed very wrong on this one, the original work having been done in the Kotlyakov report (1996) which gave the date of 2350 for the disappearance of most of the Himalayan glaciers.

    2. These kinds of non-apocalyptic timescales are backed by another, more recent report, An assessment of the potential impacts of climatic warming on glacier-fed river flow in the Himalaya (2006) by Rees & Collins.

    A regional hydro-glaciological model has been developed to assess the potential impacts of climatic warming on glacier-fed river flows in the Indus and Ganges basins. The model, applied at a 20 km x 20 km grid resolution, considers glaciers contributing runoff to a cell as a single idealized glacier that is allowed to recede through time. Using 1961-1990 climate data as input, baseline flow estimates were derived for every stretch of river in either basin. A transient warming scenario of +0.06°C years-1 was then imposed for 100 years from an arbitrary start-date of 1991. Comparison of results at 10 sites in two representative areas suggest the impacts of such climatic warming are similar regionally, with estimates of future decadal mean flows continually increasing at 1-4% per decade, relative to baseline, at most sites considered. Flows peaked at only two of the sites several decades into the model run.

    3. The worst affected region by far in the event of glacier meltdown would be the Indus (and Pakistan), which is almost entirely reliant on glacier runoff; the other great Asian rivers derive a great deal of their flow from the monsoon, so presumably agricultural civilization will be able to survive in the non-Pakistani parts of the Indian subcontinent as long as a) the monsoons continue, b) irrigation is practiced, c) new rice varieties are developed that are able to cope with increased heat stress, and d) said areas don't fall into so-called "zones of uninhabitability,

    4. That said, I should still stress that there are far more unknowns than knowns in all this. Some possibilities that might make the dire predictions of meltdown by around 2050 more plausible:
    a) Not a lot of research done, AFAIK, on the brown soot and particulates deposited by Indian cook-fires and industrializing China on the Himalayas, which when embedded in the ice massively accelerate melting since they are "black bodies" (even though ironically they shield the Himalayas from some of the heat).
    b) Referring to the report in 2): I'm not sure representing melting glaciers contributing runoff to a cell as a "single idealized glacier" is very rigorous. There could be runaway mechanisms similar to the ones recently discovered for Greenland and Antarctic (i.e. moulins).

    5. Though the 2035 date seems to have been invalidated, more research needs to be done before we can ascertain that the situation really is as non-threatening as implied by Kotlyakov and Rees & Collins work.

    EDIT: 6. I had a look at the Kotlyakov report (1) in more detail:

    Taking air temperature records of the Tien Shari Weather Station and assuming that the same linear trend is to keep up (unfortunately, linear extrapolation is inevitable here), we may find that the mean annual temperature in Central Asia may go up 1.5° C by the year 2350. Proceeding from these rough estimates, in Tables 10, and 11 we have derived figures for glaciation shrinkage DS, changes in the specific glacier melt runoff Rd and the volume of this runoff QRd, as well as for the overall rise of the ocean level Z SL. These data apply to Central Asian glaciers and all of the extrapolar glaciation of the Earth.
    ...
    ... The extrapolar glaciation of the Earth will be decaying at rapid, catastrophic rates—its total area will shrink from 500,000 to 100,000 km² by the year 2350.

    Hmmm... so he is modeling a (linear!) 1.5C temperature rise over Central Asia during the century, when the projected global average for just the next century ranges up to as high as 6.1C (IPCC) and increases exponentially over time (and that's discounting tipping points, the dimming effect, the "Archer bonus", etc).

  3. PS. Two tidbits I'd like to share on the topic of AGW.

    Climate change: No hiding place? (Economist)

    The betting is that 2010 will be the hottest year on record. But understanding how the planet’s temperature changes is still a challenge to science

    IT MAY seem implausible at the moment, as northern Europe, Asia and parts of America shiver in the snow, but 2010 may well turn out as the hottest year on record. Those who doubt that greenhouse gases are quite the problem they have been cracked up to be by most of the world’s climatologists have taken comfort from the fact that the Hadley Centre, part of Britain’s Meteorological Office, reckons the warmest year since records began was 1998 (see chart 1). Twelve years without a new record would, the sceptics reckon, be rather a large lull in what is supposed to be a rising trend. Computer modelling by the Met Office, though, gives odds-on chances of the lull being broken.
    ...
    Indeed, one reason for thinking that the coming year will be hotter than all known previous ones is that the tropical Pacific is currently dumping heat. This phenomenon, by which heat that has been stored up in the sea over the previous few years is released into the atmosphere, is known as El Niño. A strong Niño contributed to the record temperatures in 1998. In 2007 and 2008 the opposite phenomenon, a cooling Niña, was happening. That goes some way to explaining why those years were chilly by the standards of the 2000s.

    And on top of El Niño, there is the sun. The sun’s brightness fluctuates over an 11-year cycle. Though the fluctuation is not vast, it is enough to make a difference from peak to trough. In 2009 the sun was at the bottom of its cycle. Unless it is behaving particularly strangely, it should, over the next 12 months, begin to brighten.
    ...
    DePreSys is an attempt to work round this “initialisation” problem—to give the model’s caricature not just an all-purpose resemblance to the way the real climate behaves, but one that captures its pose and expression at a particular moment. In 2007 the first study using DePreSys correctly predicted that there would be a few more years which would set no records. After this, it said, there would be a definite rise in temperature. More recently, Dr Smith and his team have been using clusters of computers around Britain to run multiple models with slightly different initial conditions. Four-fifths of these runs suggest 2010 will be warmer than any previous year—which could be taken as odds of four-to-one on. The techniques are still in their infancy. But they are at least making predictions that can be checked.

    Then there's the startling revelation that 2009 may have been the joint-2nd warmest year on record, even despite that solar radiation is at its cyclical minimum.

    If It’s That Warm, How Come It’s So Damned Cold?

    The past year, 2009, tied as the second warmest year in the 130 years of global instrumental temperature records, in the surface temperature analysis of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS). The Southern Hemisphere set a record as the warmest year for that half of the world. Global mean temperature, as shown in Figure 1a, was 0.57°C (1.0°F) warmer than climatology (the 1951-1980 base period). Southern Hemisphere mean temperature, as shown in Figure 1b, was 0.49°C (0.88°F) warmer than in the period of climatology.

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